Are Irish Foxes A Sub-Spies?

 

We know that foxhunting was still an elite 'sport' in the early 19th century. In fact, from the late 1830s -into the 1840s there was criticism that as starvation spread through Ireland the sport continued as though nothing was happening.  That should come as no surprise since the English treated the Irish and Welsh as "sub-humans".  Poor people were dying but what had that to do with society's 'sport'?

The Field - Saturday 08 January 1898 reports on fox hunting in Meath and surrounding area and the foxes do not seem to be in the numbers of former years.  An island species relentlessly hunted along with cubbing in which young foxes are thrown to hounds so they "get the taste" and no restraint on killing pregnant vixens means that a population soon drops in numbers. Dullards, however, still see "foxes in abundance!"

As detailed in The Red Paper 2022 Canids the shortage of foxes in Ireland became a problem and as "gifts" English Masters of Fox Hounds sent gifts of Mountain foxes (the largest of the three Old fox types) to Irish MFHs. However, it is unclear whether the shortage of 'sport' was due to foxes in Irelands wet and cold climate were wiped out in the most accessible areas but still continued in more remote areas.  Certainly there were still Mountain foxes captured in rugged areas and transported to hunt areas.

We also know that foxes in Ireland were surviving somewhat better than their English counterparts. In the early 20th century questions were asked in the British Parliament after English hunts committed outrages -having people "steal" foxes from Ireland and brought to England.  This is all detailed in the book and I no longer give out free research so if you want the details...buy the book!

The above photograph from Eire shows a fox with a lot of Old fox traits and I have detailed those here:

Examining An Old Fox and New Fox

https://foxwildcatwolverineproject.blogspot.com/2025/09/examining-old-fox-and-new-fox.html

With t6he submergence of Doggerland 8-10 thousand years ago, mainland Britain was separated from mainland Europe and its wildlife became unique island species.  When the water levels rose again Britain and Ireland were separated by the Irish Sea.  This means that species trapped there had to adapt and become another unique Irish population. I commented on that here:

Old Irish, British and European Foxes -a few words

https://foxwildcatwolverineproject.blogspot.com/2025/04/old-irish-british-and-european-foxes.html

Naturalists have noted that "Irish foxes don';t quite look the same as those from England. No big surprise. In fact, while looking into the "Achill Island Wolves" often referred to by Cryptozoologists (who have yet to understand or undertake "research work") I found foxes there. Achill is a small island on Ireland's south coast  so how did they get there?  Again, this was discussed in The Red Paper. What this means is that the Achill foxes are another unique island species -although I can find no one on the island or elsewhere willing to discuss them.

There was an interesting article on the number of foxes in Ireland which I looked at here:

Does Ireland Have A Thriving Fox Population -and why?

https://foxwildcatwolverineproject.blogspot.com/2024/10/does-ireland-have-thriving-fox.html

I do not believe that Ireland -Northern or Republic- has a "thriving population" and the vague numbers seem to come from the "usual sources": those who are pro hunt and over exaggerate fox numbers to justify their killing sprees (it is NOT "control" in any way shape or form because if you wanted to control such a population why is the history of the UK and Ireland full of well documented public news items and book references to importing more "for sport"?

The other big source for these figures are pest control companies for who call outs to "deal with foxes" are big money. Their 'knowledge' of the animals (that they brag about) is often incorrect and full of pro hunt jargon disguised as "expert opinion".

Evidence would seem to support the fact that the situation in Northern Ireland and Eire is similar to the mainland UK: urban foxes (with the usual death rates by car and rodenticide) and a dwindling (over exaggerated) population in the countryside.

I have had little success in finding remains of genuine Irish wolves that could one day be DNA studied but I would expect there to be a number of taxidermy examples of foxes killed across the island pre 1860. It is just finding people who have them and are willing to communicate!

I proved, based on contemporary accounts,  back in 2000 that there were wild cats in Ireland. The Red Paper 2022 Felids provided the physical evidence of their existence -something archaeology is now proving.  I hope that in 2026 I can at least succeed in finding evidence of Old foxes in Ireland.

But then there is the question of who will pay for DNA testing?

The Final Numbers Will Be Of Great Concern

 

 Just so that everyone understands the ultimate death toll when given (1st January, 2026).

Very few people report dead animals -even pets seen dead are not reported. The response is still, after a decade of trying to explain: "It's a dead animal who cares?" and "Someone else will report it -my time is far too important to waste". More often the line "Well I see them dead on the road all the time when driving around Bristol"

Which means that the foxes and badgers that are reported -and it is still a case of hearing about most by accident- is not a true number.

Statistically: "It is impossible to provide a single, precise number for the actual estimate, as road death incidents are significantly underreported. However, a figure of 360 reported incidents suggests the actual number could range from approximately 1,000 to over 5,000, or potentially much higher, depending on the species and location. "

Bear that in mind.

A Few Words

 As I have noted before there is only one full time fox researcher (50 years) and only one body  (The British Fox (and Wild Canids) Study f 1976) looking at red foxes in the UK as well as the true history of foxes -looking at the Old foxes that became extinct.

Over the decades the work has cost me thousands but there is no real academic interest in foxes apart from the occasional very narrow scoped short term projects.   Basically, it is a lonely business that has very few collaborators.

Threats? Oh, those are standard if you are involved in wildlife work. When I was a UK police forces exotic wildlife consultant I got all kinds of threats. In recent years, due to the fox work, I have opened the front door to find a short hangman's noose on the door step (I still have that if the sender wants it back) . A decapitated pigeon and even decapitated rat.  The official problems from doing this work also mount up.

Over the decades I have applied for UK wildlife grants but was always told (if I insisted on a reason) "Foxes aren't covered". I tried EU grants -but they will not tell you why your application was a failure just who else got the grant. 

DNA work is the next step but whereas at least one UK university will examine material alleged to have come from "big cats" in the countryside, none will even consider DNA testing extinct fox and wild cat types. Which means DNA testing would need to be paid for and that is expensive and you need a lab that can access the data base needed to compare samples. 

Really, all of the archival research and documentation has been carried out so that there is absolutely no doubt that the British Isles had three distinct Old fox variants and with Ireland the same applies. However, if we want to correct the record and push aside over a century of dogma DNA is the final proof.

Sadly, I doubt we will ever see DNA testing.

"Re-Introduction"

 It is a FACT that English, Welsh and Scottish wild cats were hunted to extinction. At a meeting of Scottish zoologists in 1898 one of the speakers was a man who had studied Scottish wild cats for 40 years. He declared that the wild cat had become extinct decades before and the 1860s was decided and agreed upon.

What you see in museums are not wild cats but hybrids of European wild cats. What are being financed and released are nothing more than hybrid European wild cats.

These cats are raised wild before release, but face the same threats such as cars or shooting and trapping on estates. They cannot be guarded 24/7 and you can bet the odd shooter who considers his/herself a 'sports' person is going to be out looking for one. The shooting community long ago share locations of where the releases would take place.

They want to introduce lynx and wolves back to Scotland and while lynx have survived in Scotland and even England in recent times (officially 1920s-1930s) they were all shot. Back in the 1990s an escaped arctic fox was shot by a farmer because "it looked unusual". Same decade in Shropshire a moron farmer shot an escaped ring tailed lemur because "it was an unusual animal"

There are far too many people in the UK who love to go out with rifles (often in groups) to shoot whatever they can find for 'fun' and they could not care less that the fox population has dropped by 60% -the old hunts had the same view: "We MUST have our sport".

The law states that a fox can be "dealt with" if a threat to livestock. Foxes in urban areas hunting rats and similar are no threat but who cares? We do know that in some areas off duty police officers take part in the 'sport' when they should be stopping it as unnecessary killing of wildlife (not to mention pets and the occasional live stock).

As I have gotten older so my stance has changed. The UK is not an animal loving set of countries and government legislation as well as local authorities do all they can to allow developers to destroy habitat while not caring about the mass of wildlife shot or killed by cars.

I would NEVER support the introduction of any species to replace one humans have made extinct. History has shown those species would only be targeted again.

Extinction is forever

Apology

 It seems that Blogger is having problems again. All posts are in the same font and text size but every time Blogger moves its server around it messes things up.

Hopefully all still readable.

GIGANTIC HIGH CONTENT WOLFDOG - Should you have one?

The Mystery Canid of Nomansland

I have used this image every so often so I ought to explain (for those who never bought a copy of the Red Paper 2022 vol. I Canidae) something about it.

 

It was forwarded to me by Richard Muirhead as he thought it might interest me. He had photographed the taxidermy while in a pub in Nomansland and in case you are thinking the name is a joke: Nomansland is a small village in the civil parish of Landford, in Wiltshire, England, close to the county border with Hampshire. It lies about 3.5 miles southeast of Redlynch and 10 miles southeast of the city of Salisbury.

See?

Anyway, Richard could not remember which public house the taxidermy was in, however, there is a reason I was interested in this one. You will note no black "tear stain" on the muzzle and it looks rather unlike the New British fox (V. vulpes). The area in Wiltshire is bang smack in the middle of some very well reported on jackal hunts in the 19th century -newspapers and journals. The question was whether this might be one of the jackals that escaped the hunt? 

There were other questions such as year of the animal's death and location which are both very important. In fact there was another question which arose based on my colleague LM's study of Old British fox taxidermies and colouration/patterns in fur and that was whether this was an Old type fox?

I have tried contacting every public house in the area but pubs close, get new owners (who don't want some "horrid old stuffed fox" in their pub) and so on. I tried from 2000 up to last year just in case there was a chance that some antique dealer had purchased the item. Nothing.

A date, location and full body photo would have told us a lot but there are times when you have to just give up and this is one -dropping it after 25 doesn't make me a negligent researcher...does it?

If anyone is in that area of Wiltshire reads this and has this taxidermy or any photos/information on it please get in touch.